The New York Mets showed early and often why they are in 1st place of the National League East division. Cincinnati had no answers in a 10-2 loss that dropped them to 44-66 on the season, and for the time being a tie for last place in the division with the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Down 6-0 in the top of the 4th the Reds were able to get on the board when Joey Votto doubled in Kyle Farmer. Votto would later score on a sacrifice fly from Jake Fraley to make it a 6-2 game. That would be all that the offense would get on the day. Votto and Farmer each had two hits in the game, and Votto was also hit by a pitch as he got on base three times during the game.

T.J. Zeuch was making his first start in the big leagues this season and things didn’t go well. The Mets scored two runs off of him in the 1st inning, three more in the 2nd, and another run in the 3rd. The Reds were trailing 6-0 after three innings and the Mets didn’t really look back, either.

Reiver Sanmartin was charged with an unearned run in an inning of work. Ian Gibaut gave up three runs in the 6th inning and that extended the New York lead to 10-2. Ross Detwiler and Hunter Strickland kept the Mets off of the board in the 7th and 8th innings.

The Reds head off to Iowa tomorrow to play in the Field of Dreams game against the Chicago Cubs. Surely FOX is loving the fact that the two teams playing in the game has 12 more wins combined than the Dodgers.

Joey Votto was channeling his inner Homer Simpson by winning a contest for kids. Also, found Frank Grimes burner account.

Way to ruin a kids contest @JoeyVotto pic.twitter.com/z7FI8Ze2nv

Cincinnati Reds vs. Chicago Cubs

Thursday August 11th, 7:15pm ET

Drew Smyly (4-6, 3.97 ERA) vs Nick Lodolo (3-3, 4.40 ERA)

Doug Gray is the owner of RedsMinorLeagues.com, Redleg Nation, and as you guessed it, passionate about the great sport of baseball. He's been writing about baseball since 2006 (contributions formerly at The Athletic and currently at Baseball America). You can keep tabs with him on twitter @dougdirt24.

Just a curiosity: Of the five starters currently in the Reds’ rotation, none were on the active roster at the start of the season.

To be fair, Lodolo was in the rotation to start the year, they just didn’t activate him until it was his day to pitch.

Missed the game today, results saying I glad I did

Clearly, the Reds are not in the same league competitively as the Mets! Lick our wounds and move on to the Iowa corn field.

Compelled to comment on the Reds pitching again after revieing the play-by-play stats from this afternoon’s game! Three (3) of the six (6) runs allowed by young Mr. Zeuch were the direct result of walks (2) and a HBP. Reds pitchers are slow learners apparently!

Reds offense managed 5 runs in the three game series. With the deadline trades and injuries there just isn’t much in the cupboard offensively. In fact the offense is offensively offensive.

is this Zeuch a long term peice?

I doubt it although TJ Zeuch is almost a hometown guy.

Well, hopefully we can at least get a nationally televised love fest for Mr. Joseph Daniel Votto tomorrow night.

The fact that he is mixed should make the above a forgone conclusion, and at a minimum make it an interesting game for me to watch (unlike the vast majority so far this season)

Lol! That makes a lot more sense, Rut… 😉

The Mets have the wealthiest ownership in MLB.

Boy, that Naquin guy for NY is pretty good. Wonder what it would take to get him?

Hector Rodríguez and Jose Acuña?

I would not trade those two quality prospects for Naquin if I were the Reds.

Tyler probably likes playing for a team that rewards you when you play well instead of trade you.

I’d say the trade was the reward.

Well, that wasn’t nice. But, with the trade deadline up and gone, we need to expect more of this.

I try to consider why bringing up a couple of the pitchers they have when there are obviously some others more qualified. I try to consider that “maybe” some are on the DL, if they are starter maybe they are in the middle of their 5 day rotation, or something. I would hope that’s what was going on. Because from the stats that I was seeing, there were some pitchers much more qualified to move up before the ones they did move up.

Regardless, any season summary, I believe, should come from up to the trade deadline, nothing after the trade deadline. And, from what I saw was this. . .

I looked at a couple of numbers, and at the trade deadline, this team was actually averaging a tick above the 1990 WS Champs in runs/game. So, why the difference? This team’s ERA is more than 1.50 higher than the 1990 WS Champs.

So, then, you have to consider how to improve the pitching. In the stages I am seeing or should see:

– we will be seeing if these youngsters will develop. We will be seeing this starting next year – if we don’t get success there, then we should see pitchers coming in from the outside, more veteran pitchers. I’m not talking about Cy Young winners. I’m only talking about pitchers like maybe what Miley was for us, Gray, Strailey, etc., pitchers who we can count on for 10-14 wins per season, for example. – if we don’t get success there, then we need start looking at the coaching, if not management. As much as I like Derek Johnson, if the pitchers aren’t having success, one has to start looking toward him at some point in time. I definitely believe Bell has no clue how to use our relievers. – if we get no success there, we have to look at what our front office is doing.

There will be a massive 40 man crunch this winter. The Reds do not want to bring somebody up who is not on it now or has to go on in December.

David Bell always gets hammered by us fans with his use of bullpen. I am just wondering if Derek Johnson has any input into who should brought in and when? Seems the pitching coach would have a lot of input, like who is available that day, what the favorable match up would be for any particular hitter. Just wondering if anyone has any real insight into how these decisions are made.

Zeuch is a nice guy, but his MLB record is not impressive. The Reds needs to prepare for the future. They did not send the right pitcher up to get the needed experience. They left him in Louisville. This is a step backward today.

Well, like I said, the “proper pitcher” was possibly in the middle of his 5 day rotation, and thus not available. Or, he may have been on the DL. Or, he may not even be on the 40 roster.

I mean, I myself believe it should have been someone else; the numbers showed that. But, there are more things than just numbers. who’s on the roster? Who’s available? Who’s healthy? Etc.

Seriously, this team’s ERA is only 1.50 higher than the 1990 team? I would have expected it to be much higher.

The 1990 team had a great bullpen, and solid starters. Whereas this team has a terrible bullpen and has used many bad starters.

Also, I’m not sure how much blame Bell gets for “bad bullpen use”, since every piece he has to select from is pretty useless.

He’s like Vizzini (from the Princess Bride). Regardless of which cups he picks, he’s going to lose.

The Reds have a whole bullpen worth of relievers on the injured list. Most of our relievers today wouldn’t be on the team if all our relievers were healthy.

Another good old fashioned butt whippin from a superior team.

Doesn’t matter if the Reds lose every remaining game. What matters is playing the young guys and see who can contribute in the future. Obviously, it’s not guys like Zeuch. It’s also obvious that Bell and the coaches aren’t up to dealing with developing players.

Whatever happened to small sample size? If everybody’s assessment we’re based on a single start Hunter Greene would be DFA’d.

Zeuch has a track record of not succeeding Send him to Louisville and see if he can be turned around. I’d bet not.

I’m not ready to can Zeuch after facing the Mets in his first debut for a while. I’m going to be more patient. The Blue Jays saw some good things in his sinkerball and high ground ball rate.

Greenmtred, of course we disagree. I wouldn’t have it any other way. I could point out that Zeuch has crashed and burned with every previous MLB club and that he’s already 27, about a year younger than Aquino, whom nearly everyone here has given up on. I could point out that DJ was supposed be creating pitching aces and instead has more blown out arms. I could point out that Zinter was touted as a guru for working with Barrero the day he hit two homers, but hasn’t been mentioned when he strikes out 3 times. I could point out that the Reds should have made the playoffs last year but didn’t. I could point out that they were 12 games over .500 last year and in 2nd place before collapsing over the last month+, finishing 12-20 and out of the playoffs. That’s not a roster problem. That a system, management, discipline problem across the entire dysfunctional organization. So again, I don’t care how many games the Reds lose the rest of the year. It’s about the future and much of the roster isn’t , even subsequent to the trade deadline, they are rather old, Votto, Moose, Solano, Detwiller, and so on. So you & I disagree? There’s a surprise. But, I quite comfortable with that.

Some of the “old” are our best performers! Like Solano and Detwiler. If winning is a goal, you have to play and keep some of your best performers and not trade them or trash them. If you want to experiment and lose more frequently, bring up a bunch of babes not ready for prime time in the majors.

Oh, I’m comfortable with it, too, LDS. We’ve gone over this stuff endlessly, so I’ll just comment on Zeuch: He’s probably roster filler with little expected of him, and the Reds really had few alternatives for this game, Okay, I’ll comment on Barrero, too: I was not swayed by the two home runs, and not swayed by the strikeouts: He’s a young player learning to hit MLB pitching, and coaches can sometimes help, but can’t do magic; with the Reds or with any other team, a lot of development is ultimately up to the player. Any MLB batting coach could make me a better hitter; no MLB batting coach could make me a good MLB hitter.

Winning in the future is the goal Steveareno, not this year. Solano and Detweiller, Moose, Votto, and the rest of the dinosaurs are not part of the next great Reds team – assuming there will be a next great Reds team.

Careful Greenmtred, came awfully close to writing something I could agree with.

Thanks, LDS. I figure there’ve been a few other times.

If they arent up to developing guys, then why would you let them? Why rush them into bad coaching?

The team in 1982 may have been worse, if so I don’t remember it. I was a Sophomore in College so baseball probably wasn’t a priority for me at the time.

This team reminds me more of the early 2000s. The lost decade. The end of Leather pant’s regime. Thanks for the new tax funded ball park! let the fire sale begin!

The best thing that could happen now is for ownership to put this team on the market. I don’t mean just the majority owner, but all the tight-fisted people who have had a stranglehold on this franchise for decades.

There may be a slim risk that the team would move, at this point I am willing to risk it. Of course, there would be no guarantee the new owners would do any better, but this group has had their day. Time to turn the page.

It won’t happen of course, because the current ownership group are such good samaritans, they are willing to lose money every, single year, just to keep the team in Cincinnati. We are truly blessed to have such good corporate citizens in our midst.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1982.shtml 1982 lost 6 more games than predicted (101 L compared to 95 L predicted).

Pitching not terrible (ERA+ 101 average). Offense not good (OPS+ 84 average).

McNamara was a decent manager. Not his fault.

Reds had two HOF on the team. Bench and Seaver had their worst MLB seasons.

i feel i am kind of an expert on the 1982 season. I was Going through a divorce and went to 62 games that year. I took my 7 y/o son with me for most of the games as that was part of the visitation agreement. That i could take my son to any reds game I wanted to!

I would say pre trade deadline the 2022 team was better but now after the big trades the 1982 was much better. Concepcion had one of his better years from an offensive stand point.Driessen was pretty solid at first. Oester had a decent year and Cedeno and Milner were solid in the outfield. Bench was awful at third I remember. he literally had no range.

the starting pitching was ok with Soto and Berenyi but Pastore and Seaver REALLY STRUGGLED. the Bullpen wasn’t really a factor because they were always down a couple of runs by the time they came in. Just a lot of 4-2, 2-1 losses that year.

If watching the Reds the last 52 games of the year is viewed through the lens of wins, a high powered offense scoring 5-6 runs a game and good pitching- thats not happening. This is a rebuild and Castillo mahle naquin and Drury arent here.

Im looking at hope for the future

Can greene lodolo and Ashcraft finish strong ?

Can another bullpen arm emerge with Diaz for 2023?San Martin? Can Barrero play 50 games and show some defense and athleticism and give better at bats?

Can someone in the OF( Fraley, Senzel) finish the year strong and claim a 2023 spot or an outsider looking in stake a claim?

This is a 95-100 loss team and its a tank/rebuild. The draft class of 2023 is strong. Reds get a top 5 pick likely …..and add to the pipeline.

I appreciate your optimism. And a lot of what you say is true.

But the fact is, the Reds are a looooooonnnng way from being competitive. It’s great to have so many promising prospects at Low A, High A and AA. But how will this all shake out?

A 10-2 loss is just one game. Against a very good team, maybe better than the Dodgers. The Reds traded away some good players, and got promisary notes to be redeemed at a later date. This is what most of us actually discussed and advocated here. But it is going to be hard to watch this team lose 110 games (or more) this year.

Zeuch was a nothing, a career AAA player. I expected him to lose. And Dugger, the same. Minor is lousy, and we knew that before the season started. Maybe Dunn can turn it around in the last 5 -6 weeks of the season. And that’s about all we have to look at. Greene may be done for the season, and Lodolo will probably get shut down soon, on an innings limit. I don’t know whether Ashcraft will pitch until the end, or get shut down too. It will be a crapfest to end the season. I guess we should get used to it.

Let me revise that. They traded some good players and got cheap promissory notes written in invisible ink, so there is just no telling much about the notes. But they are cheap! Oh, we miss Drury!

All I’m looking for are signs of optimism going forward. Fraley has come back on fire. That’s a good sign. I’ve seen enough of Minor to know he’s not. Will keep an eye on Dunn to see if he shows positive signs into September. Barrero too. Slick fielder but can he hit? I’ve seen enough of Aquino to think he’s never going to hit. Great arm but…

Season can’t end fast enough. I still say next real opportunity will be in 2024. Votto & Moose contracts come off the books. Whole new team by then. We’ll probably need a new Manager too.

It was my lucky day again today to have a good cover story not to pay much attention to the game.

My wife is a month out from knee replacement surgery; and, when the home rehab therapist stopped by early on in the game, my wife got the green light to go out for a restaurant meal as long as we could find seating where she could prop up the surgical knee for support. Quickly and Easily accomplished at a local pizza parlor.

That works, Jim! Wishing continued healing to your wife. I’d wish the same to our boys, but …

Good for you. Wishing your wife a speedy recovery. 🙂

I am so glad she is on the mend!

Excellent, and excellent for the local pizza joint as well!

Best of luck to your wife, Jim.

Thanks, she seems to be doing fine. She is about to be “graduated” from home to outpatient therapy.

She is a seasoned veteran at this having had the other one done not quite a year ago. The doc told her this one was easier and cleaner from their perspective, but I’ve heard more cussing and the like during exercises on this one. They are what they are, pain now for gain later.

I’m happy for your wife and you, Jim. I had both of mine replaced in June; rehab is my new job.

Hope all is going well with you. The therapist said the other day she had one of her knees done last year and would get the other later this year but had backed out of having them both at the same time in part because of the rehab load of that.

Crazy question for you. Did you have the ice water machine/ bandage routine to control swelling in the 1st couple of weeks? If so how much ice were you using every day? We were going thru a 20Lb bag a day plus what probably half again that much again we could make ourselves just for the 1 knee at a time.

We have hospital-style cold packs in strap-on covers, and multiple refill cold packs. I used those and elevated a lot, and the swelling stayed under control. My odd problem is that I turned out to be allergic to the inner sutures, so the incisions continue to develop openings which leak and constitute, of course, an infection risk. The bright side of this is that I’ve watched more Reds’ baseball than I would have otherwise. I’m not sure if that last sentence is sarcastic.

I don’t like Zeuch as long term starter. Maybe they should call up somebody else I don’t know whether from Louisville or Chattanooga… something curious about the Reds pitchers is that most of them have ERA above 5.00 but many have pitched well for a while so they lower their ERA below 4.00 although when this occurs they struggle in one game inmediatly ballooning the ERA above 5.00 again… The Mets sweeping Reds was not surprising… The Reds starting pitching conformed by Dunn (debut) , Minors (no words) and Zeuch (debut) did not give hopes facing a strong lineup aside the Mets elite rotation overwhelming the weak Reds offense…

Long term, no, but he may be a worthwhile project. Dunn likely has much better stuff, or that seems the consensus view, but Zeuch is probably slightly better than most of the other AAAA types they’ve gone with the past 6-7 years.

I think we have enough info on Minor to make decisions about next year. (That’s as diplomatic as I can put it.)

The Louisville Bats are playing tonight. They are in Ioway too, taking on the Cubs AAA team this week. The game time is 7:35 EDT. Here’s a link to their GameDay Page.

https://www.milb.com/gameday/bats-vs-cubs/2022/08/10/665878#game_state=preview,game_tab=,game=665878

Interestingly enough, Fairchild is playing CF tonight with Friedl on a corner (LF). A person could see some intrigue in this involving either or both guys. The new guy over from the Twins in the Mahle deal, Steer, is at SS.

What intrigue JW – not following?

Best wishes for your wife and for you too as always.

Glad to hear Jim. The cussing is just determination to win

The Reds will be competitive in 2025. Hang in their Reds fans. There is a plan. The prospects are mostly in High A or AA. De La Cruz and Marte will be stars. They might be superstars. McClain, India, and Stephenson will probably be part of that team. You know there are several other prospects who have good potential. The young starting pitchers will be much better. It is not hard to see that something better is coming. Go Reds!

The Mets swept the Reds with 3 journeyman starters. Carasco is on pace to win 17 games with high 3 or low 4 ERA. A good offense can carry a team to the playoffs. Our lineup will need a lot of help from these prospects in the next four years.

Bassit, Carasco, and Ty walker are having great seasons. I’d like to have those 3 as starters next year if Mets want to dispose of their journeyman starters.

I am hoping this field of dreams game will bring national attention to just how weak the league is and just how bad the reds are right now. Hopefully it will squash any notion of “expansion” and maybe start the conversation of league contraction. There are just not enough good position players to go around now to fill the rosters of 30 teams in my opinion. If you have any hitting ability at all you are going to be too expensive for the poorer teams to keep. Naquin and Drury are good examples.

these last years make you wonder what role do teams like the reds, pirates. royals, tigers and marlins play in mlb now? And would the league be better without them? Even these big time tv contracts will eventually dry up if these teams don’t start competing

An oh by the way on Justin Dunn. He was hitting 95-96+ with Seattle. You don’t have 102 ip with 70 hits on the mediocre stuff he has now. That’s elite closer type numbers on hits per inning/batting average against. If he gets right then he’s a factor moving forward

After trading away Castillo and Mahle, and also loosing Greene to IL, it was a very much expected result against the Mets. Moving forward it’s a big question mark who’ll carry the workload after Lodolo, Ashcraft and Dunn (no more Minor, please).

Well, Minor will be starting in the rotation until the end of the 2022 season.

Do we have an excess of starters right now? I don’t think so. And the Reds are paying him $10 million to pitch this year. You betcha he’s starting.

Wondering if anyone heard Keith Hernandez talking about the Reds on MLB network. Living in southern Illinois, I hear the snarkiness of the cards broadcasters. I’ve heard Tom Hamilton from Cleveland on the radio and he’s always been very knowledgeable and respectful of the Red’s history. Hernandez broke down plays that the Reds shouldn’t be making, like Senzel’s throw to third, India’s set up for a double play ball, Votto not getting in front of a ball that Barrero probably shouldn’t have thrown. I’ve seen numerous Cardinals games over the years and it seems like they make more “heads up” or “basebally” plays. Maybe the Reds development team isn’t what it should be or the players aren’t getting the teaching. These plays won’t make the difference in a 10-2 game, but over a season these misplays add up. Just wondering if anyone else noticed

TJ, I lived in Paducah, KY for several years which is Cardinal Country and always made that observation as well. Even Pham (who thankfully is gone) consistently took the extra base and threw to the correct base which is the “cardinal way” of doing things. I don’t know the reason for the difference, but I did often comment about Cardinal players being much more fundamentally sound on average. (I hate to admit that as I generally despise the cardinals.)

LP, I also despise the cards. Watching MLB network a few months back, they spoke about a play the Cardinals “practiced”. Bases loaded, two out, ground ball to an infielder. https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/cardinals-pirates-baserunning-play-trick-video-mlb-fans-reaction The former ball players on the network were amazed. Not only did they never hear of this, but were surprised to hear the Cardinals practiced this play.

i think has to do with coaching. we have had a string of player friendly, somewhat aloof head coaches, with Baker, Price and now Bell. i go to enough minor league games to see that the fundamentals are taught at the lower minor league levels, just not executed at the big league level because there are no consequences for bad decisions

I saw all of those plays you noted, and called them out in the game thread. It’s amazing how many fundamental gaffs the Reds make game to game.

When you aren’t talented enough, you must do all of those small things in a game….it definitely makes a difference.

LP, I also despise the cards. Watching MLB network a few months back, they spoke about a play the Cardinals “practiced”. Bases loaded, two out, ground ball to an infielder. https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/cardinals-pirates-baserunning-play-trick-video-mlb-fans-reaction The former ball players on the network were amazed. Not only did they never hear of this, but were surprised to hear the Cardinals practiced this play.

Very cool story to share TJ. I do wish someone had the ability/time to try to explain the difference between the two systems.

Rednat hit the nail on the head when he said there are no consequences for in his words bad decisions.Some of course are bad decisions like throwing the ball when you have no chance to get the runner while others are lack of effort.Players make mistakes and I am not saying they should stay after school or run laps or write I will run out every ball I hit 100 times.I imagine all these things are stressed in the minors and for the most part players do them because they want to make it to the big show and until they do they may be held back.Players should have veteran leadership to take care of these things and if not then the manager should .Leaders can be silent and still lead while others will call out their teammates.Either way works only if there is a change that can be seen on the field.So its obvious we need new leaders cause we keep doing the same things over and over and a lot of the time its the same players.Barrero’ lack of effort yesterday on the line drive hit at him in the 6th was just awful followed by Joey’s fall or dive or what ever you call it on a ball hit 4 feet to his left is just the latest.

Right now today I wish the season were over.I have no confidence we will find out what players may help us next year but rather just pitter patter through until 2023.Players will play or at least go through the motions like yesterday and Bell will do just what he has always done.

Your email address will not be published.

Notify me of follow-up comments by email.

Notify me of new posts by email.